I couldn’t resist the title, I’m really not calling anyone a dummy but the thought came to me, I laughed so it stayed.

The other day, I wrote a blog The Independent Woman & The Sensitive Male Ego .  Well during the discussion, I posted a list of random things that I expected from a partner and also what expected to lend to the relationship.  Following that post, I received a letter and it read:

“I think the points that you responded to my comment with should just be the beginning of a new discussion.  Each point could be a conversation in and of itself, and I think such a convo is needed to help us Men figure out What the Heck we’re doing wrong!  lol

‘How to Date an Independent Woman’

Whenever you get time, go for it!”

Now, if the writer of that letter wants to be known but you know I don’t ALWAYS put it all out there.  I thought it was a great idea so I took the short, following questions and posted it on my blog on Fubar as well as sending it to some for REAL “independent women” to see how they responded.  Here is what I sent out:

“Okay based on a comment on my blog about independent women, I’ve been asked to write a blog about how to date an independent woman.  What I get myself into…lol, if you have a chance, PLEASE answer these questions so I can put this all together and not base the whole blog on just how I feel.

1.  Do you expect your date/partner to open doors for you?
2.  Do you expect your date/partner to pull out your chair for you
3.  Do you expect your date/partner to place your order with the waiter/waitress for you?
4.  Do you expect your date/partner to pay if HE asks YOU out on the first date?
5.  Do you expect your date/partner to pay if YOU ask HIM out on the first date?
6.  Who pays if it’s just a “meeting” and we’re hanging out?
7.  Do you expect your date/partner to hold your purse in the store as you shop?
8.  Do you expect your date/partner to carry your packages as you shop?  Under what condition if it’s not all the time?

Now the long term relationship stuff

1.  Do you expect your partner to consult you prior to making a major purchase?  Are you willing to consult him before doing the same?
2.  Do you expect your partner to retain a bank account in his name, you one in yours and the two of you have a joint account?
3.  Do you expect for your partner to have his own vehicle?
4.  Who is responsible for doing laundry?
4.  Who is responsible for cooking?
5.  Who is responsible for cleaning?
6.  Who is responsible for taking out the trash?
7.  Who is responsible for the paying of the household bills?
8.  Who picks up the check for “date night” if you are in a long term monogamous relationship?
9.  Did I leave anything out??  Have anything to add?  Go for it.”

I was a little discouraged when the 1st comment I received on the Fubar blog was from a guy and it said:

“I don’t expect her to swallow on the first date. That would make her a slut.”

Ugh.  For a second, I thought that if this is who I was trying to point in the right direction regarding dealing with an independent woman then I’m getting ready to throw good keystroke after bad.  Then it dawned on me, if he couldn’t even get the basic point of what I was trying to do, then he’s NOT who I’m talking to and he’s better left to whatever class of women he’s dealing with.

So I moved on to the email responses that I got.  Reminding you that I cannot speak for the world only the information I have access to, so here we go.

There are TWO types of independent women.  The first group are the independent women who are so because they have no CHOICE.  The second is the independent woman who is okay being the independent woman and wants a partner and not an investor.

The independent woman who lands in that role due to circumstances but would much rather assume all of the traditional roles are the ones that a lot of men run into.  This is the woman who is quick to claim that she is independent and will do what she wants to do but yet, still expects for her man to totally support her when she’s in a relationship.

That woman is independent out of “need”.  That means when she’s single, she “needs” to pay her own shit but it’s not her preference.  She wants a lap dog, she doesn’t want to lose face and bow down and say that she’s willing to sell her independence to the highest bidder so she ends up in quandary many times because she wants to flex and talk about what she is and isn’t going to do and what HE can and cannot do.  I have a news flash for that woman.  if he’s payin YOUR bills, he pays the cost to be the boss.  If you want to allow yourself to become a financial dependent then you do it all, as the song says “Ain’t no half steppin”.

There is NO way to claim that you are independent when he’s paying YOUR bills and you use YOUR income to go shopping, to get your hair and nails done and if you have a child, using your money to take care of your child.  YOU have an investor.  Just like a major corporation, if he asks you to report then you report.  His money is out there on the necessities, don’t poke your lips out because he wants to make sure his shit is being managed properly.  That’s what companies have to do with investors on a regular basis, they are called quarterly reports….lmfao!

Next, you have the real deal Holyfield of the independent woman.  This woman manages her own finances, home family and doesn’t see the need for that to totally change.  On the real, there are fewer of this type than the “fair weather independent woman” that I described above.

This type of woman is not looking for someone to financially support her.  She’s almost afraid of that kind of situation because she’s aware that if he’s supporting her then she very well may end up in an obligatory relationship versus the partnership she really wants.  This woman still expects to be treated like a lady in public, she wants her chair pulled out, doors opened for her and so on but does that mean she’s not independent?  Not by a long shot, that just means the woman has some home training.

I like to look at the menu, decide what I want, tell my date and let him place the whole order.  There is NOTHING wrong with that but while shopping, I don’t expect him to hold my purse or carry my packages unless something is too heavy.  I’d like him to offer but most times, I got it.

Oh and all that seat pulling out and stuff, an independent woman doesn’t mnd giving her man a backrub or tend to some of the other things he likes his woman to do.

Now lets get down to what a lot of people talk about when it comes to independance and that’s finances.  Long story short, it was the consensus that it was okay for each party to have their own accounts in additon to a joint account for bills and other household expenses.  I even talked to a guy who used to have a vacation account set up and he and his girl used to put a certain amount of money in it each month so they could take an annual vacation.

Next, most of the women I talked to wanted to at least be considered when major purchases were being made, even if it was going to come out of his personal account.  Why?  Because there is always the possiblity that the maintenance for that large purchase is going to become a household expense.  Like if HE buys a car then later THEY end up paying for insurance.  On the flip side, she’s willing to do that same, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

The way I have seen this get misconstrued though is that many men believe that if they talk to their woman first that they are asking for permission.  That’s not it.  It’s about communicating and staying on the same page.  It’s all very simple, a person can ask themself “am I getting ready to do something I would NOT want my partner to do?”

Dating is pretty much the way I laid it out, if HE asks HER on the first date then he pays, SHE asks HIM then she pays and if it’s a mutual “meeting” and they are hanging out, it’s dutch.  During the relationship, they can take turns paying or if there is some extra in a joint account they can take each other out….LOL.  Oh and those pesky house chores?  She is MORE than happy to split them down the center.

The REAL independent woman has established her identity and is not willing to let that go and just become “his girl”.  When she’s lost her identity in a relationship and people don’t even call her by name anymore, she’s referred to “his girl” a man can start expecting problems.  She’s going to try and figure out at what point she has enmeshed her identity into a relationship that no longer acknowledges her as a person.

The magic key to dating a REAL independent woman is for a man to be willing to not have the lead 24/7 and him being willing to have a total partnership.  To NOT be butthurt when she doesn’t agree with him or always think he’s right but is willing to find a happy medium.  This works out well for men too because a truly independent woman is NOT smothering.  She’s got her interests and is perfectly happy having a man who has some interests different from hers……..as long as those interests are NOT other women…LOL!!  She digs that because it really gives them something to talk about.

I don’t know if this helps but I think it’s a great start and if you are one of those “conveniently” independent chicks, please present your identification as such, you’re making it hard on those of us who really live the life and not just fake the funk.

Original Post 9/1/09

A few blogs ago, I wrote about how the lines have gotten skewed between the modern independent woman and the traditional roles that women expect when it comes to dating and the two really don’t mix.  The general consensus in that blog from the men was that if a woman is going to be independent then she need to be so all the time and hold her own equally on a date.  That kind of sums up the outcome of that blog although that was the consensus that was not the opinion for all men.

After I wrote that blog, I got an email from a friend of mine that I respect.  He wrote me and told me that it may be harder for me to find a compatible partner because I am financially responsible, maintain my own responsibilities and with as many jokes as I make about women and their toys it’s possible that I am SO independent that a man may either feel insecure or feel like he may not really have a place in my life other than being an accessory.

Building on that a little bit, I was doing some reading about how some of the traditional male roles still linger within men.  According to what I read, being able to provide for a woman financially, emotionally and sexually are three major components to what most men feel that men are supposed to do and are directly related to his masculinity.  Basically, if he can’t do those things than he feels less than a man and that a woman has assumed the “male role” in the relationship.  Now ladies, don’t get that twisted, it does not mean that a man feels inadequate if he’s not paying your rent or car note, trust me, he’s cool on not having to do all that, he’s no sucker…okay?  It’s kind of like this joke I heard the other day, a woman wants a man to wear the pants in the family but she also wants to lay out the ones he puts on….LOL.

A man’s ego is a lot more sensitive than he may let on, the male “machismo” doesn’t allow for a man to communicate that he’s feeling inadequate and emasculated by the relationship.

At first I kind of kicked back and called “bullshit” on all that.  Then I looked around an my friends and myself and I really saw some similarities.  We are all intelligent, easy on the eye, independent and yup………single.  If you smelled smoke, you’re probably right, I started thinking again.  Maybe there is something to this being overly independent…….. does it make finding a suitable partner harder?  I think it very well might.  It’s been my personal experience that a lot of my exes have moved on to women who require a bit more maintenance than I do and I don’t mean the hair and nails thing.

I have always stood by the fact that the ideal person for me would understand and embrace a partnership but asking some men to go from the mindset of the being the head of household to a “partnership” still may not be enough to satisfy what he may see as his “manly” responsibilities.

So here are my questions:

1.  Can a woman be so independent that she “independents” herself out of the market?

2.  Can there be a balance reached between the “independent woman” and her man where she doesn’t have to give up or lose sight of who she is and still foster his ego and his need to play the traditional male role by choosing and wearing the pants in the relationship?

Original Blog Posted  8/28/2009